Jennifer:
All right, let’s start with the basics — who are you?
Alison:
My name is Alison Milioto and I’m the owner and founder of BlueLion LLC, a fractional HR consulting company based out of Northern New England.
Jennifer:
And when did you start BlueLion?
Alison:
The concept was born in January 2018. We formalized the business in March, and then officially launched in November of 2018. That’s when we quit our jobs and went full-time.
Jennifer:
Ater a lifetime in HR?
Alison:
No! Actually, my background is in operations.
Jennifer:
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?
Alison:
Yeah, I was a VP of Operations, and my business partner was VP of HR. I oversaw 4 managers and about 40 staff, so I was very familiar with the personnel side. When we started the company, the plan was to offer both operations and HR consulting — the whole “people” business. But I quickly realized I loved HR way more than operations.
Jennifer:
What’s wrong with you?
Alison:
Right? I ask myself that some days. But I got certified in HR, and fast-forward to now, I only service one or two clients personally. Most of my time is business development.
Jennifer:
What made you think, “I can do this better,” or “I want to go out on my own”?
Alison:
In our previous life, we were two executives at a table of six. And not to toot our own horn, but Toni and I ran a lot of that business. We did the grunt work. We carried a lot of the stress.
And eventually, the stress started making me physically sick. Toni too, she ended up with lockjaw. TMJ. It was bad.
Jennifer:
Wow. When work really is killing you.
Alison:
Exactly. One day I walked into her office and said, “I’m leaving. I can’t do this anymore, do you want to come with me and start something?” And she said, “No, but also, I’m not staying here.” But she did, and we left on a promise of a better future. And that’s been a pillar for us, work-life balance, which means something different to everyone.
So, in that previous company, we worked in flexible spending accounts and healthcare reimbursements. Our clients were small businesses, and the people making benefit decisions weren’t HR professionals; they were finance folks, operations people, office managers, owners.
We knew right away there was a need. Most small businesses don’t have in-house HR, but they’re still responsible for HR compliance. You have to be compliant with one employee, but no one teaches you how. It became even clearer once we started our own business. You can start a company today and have employees tomorrow, and there’s no one telling you what to do. You just have to figure it out.
Jennifer:
I’m sure you had the same experience I did: you can work in large companies throughout your whole career and think you know what it takes, but I still feel shocked by the compliance notices I get as an owner. I’m constantly like, “Oh… that was a thing I was supposed to be doing. Cool. Great.”
Alison:
Especially the emails! When you’re an employee, all those 401(k) notices and disclosure emails are just white noise. You just file them away. Now I’m like, “Oh… that was a legal requirement. That’s why they sent me all that crap.”
Jennifer:
Yeah, I got a “force out” notice this morning from my 401k provider and I had the moment of, “Oh. I’m the adult here. I’m the one who has to do this.”
Alison:
Yeah. Damn it.
Originally, the plan was just the two of us for five years. We were so burnt out from managing people that we thought, “Nope. Just us. We’ll make it work.” And then the business took off really quickly.
Jennifer:
Why do you think that happened? I know personally, from working with you, that your personality and how you show up play a big role. But is there just a hole in the market for what you offer?
Alison:
Yes. I think there are three reasons.
First, people didn’t realize our service was even an option. Even today, we talk to folks who say, “I didn’t know you could outsource HR.”
Second, post-COVID, everyone became open to remote consultants and not having things in-house. Before 2020, the idea of HR not physically sitting in a brick-and-mortar office was insane for a lot of companies. “How do you manage people if you’re not here?”
Third, and I think this was the real accelerator; we’ve always been honest, transparent, and real people. We’re compliant and we do things the right way, but we’re not afraid to tell a client, “You’re not a good fit,” or “This won’t work if you don’t listen to us.”
We’ve been fortunate to never be handcuffed to a client financially. That freedom lets us have tough conversations from a place of integrity, and I think clients respect that. Yes, they’re paying us, but our job is to protect their business, so listen to us.
That’s also why we’ve found traction in trades and blue-collar industries. We understand them. My significant other owns a garage door company, nine employees. I get what they’re dealing with. Two years ago, we were trying to get them to use tablets. Now we’re trying to get them to clock in and out. No, they’re not doing electronic open enrollment. They’re filling out paper. And that’s fine.
We don’t force anything. We’re not like, “If you want us to run HR, you must use this onboarding system and must run open enrollment this way.” We have guidelines and guardrails — like bowling bumpers to keep you out of the gutter — but we’re flexible in how we engage. Clients like that. We’re agnostic on a lot of tools.
Jennifer:
I love that about you. Truly. We treat our engagements the same way; there are certain things you have to do, like payroll taxes. But if you want to write physical checks instead of direct deposit? Sure. You can do that. It’s not our preferred path, but it’s a path.
So let’s talk about the positive side of COVID, it opened a lot of doors for flexible work.
But what has that change done from the employee side and how you’re managing it?
Alison:
I think there are two sides to this. On the employer side, the post-COVID mindset created some unintended consequences. We work with a lot of companies like yours that now have remote staff, and they’re excited because they can “hire from anywhere.”
And we’re like… yes, technically. But also: no. There are states where you really don’t want to hire if you can avoid it.
Clients will come to us saying, “We’re extending an offer. Can you tell us what we need to know about California?” And I’m like, “How about… you don’t hire in California? Do you want the laundry list of what you now have to comply with?”
Some companies can handle multi-state complexity; we have a client in 37 states, and it works for them, but for most, it’s just unnecessary chaos. If you can avoid certain states, avoid them.
On the employee side, the biggest shift I’ve seen, and I think you and I both feel this, is that there’s far less loyalty. People realized during COVID that they could live on less, work remotely, travel in an RV through Colorado, and still have a job. And now, because remote work is everywhere, they have limitless options. If I live in Manchester, New Hampshire, I’m not limited to a 30-minute commute anymore. I can work anywhere.
Some people still want an office, but even that’s changed. There are co-working spaces everywhere, I’m sitting in one right now. If you want people around, you can find them.
But loyalty? That’s gone. People switch jobs quickly because companies don’t have the same hold on staff anymore. And on top of that, expectations are… unrealistic in a lot of cases.
Jennifer :
The pendulum has swung.
Alison:
So far.
Jennifer:
Yes. My parents were Depression-era. You stay at your job. You do the work. That was the rule. And now the pendulum has swung completely the other way.
And you and I have talked about this, I’m not one of those, “We’re a family here!” employers. Half the people I know hate their families. Why would I pitch that?
Alison:
Right? Do you want to come to my Thanksgiving? Because honestly, I’d rather spend it with my team.
Jennifer:
But also, this is a job. If someone won the lottery, they would quit. I get that. I don’t expect people to be miserable, but also… it’s work. It’s not recess.
I’ve been asking everyone this question because everyone across the board has said some version of what you’re saying. When do you think the pendulum will swing back toward the middle?
Alison:
I think it’s starting to, slightly. And here’s why: companies are doing layoffs.
When layoffs happen and people see friends losing jobs, or they themselves go a week or two without work, fear comes back into the market. And if that happens enough, the pendulum starts shifting back.
But I still think we’re very far on one side.
You made a good point: a lot of this is generational, not just COVID. My father worked at the same organization for 30 years. He climbed the ladder the old-school way. The opportunities just showed up over time.
Today, fortunately or unfortunately, younger employees want you to show them the ladder. They want to see the growth path clearly. If you don’t, they’ll find somewhere that will. They’re not going to work harder for the possibility of a raise someday down the line. Now, you give them the pay first if you expect the work.
Social media also plays a role. Everyone’s an influencer. Everyone’s a star.
And you have all these skits online about workplace dynamics, like the boss saying, “Rita quit, so we need you to take her clients,” and the employee saying, “Cool, then do I get Rita’s salary?”
These clips go viral, and people start believing they have that kind of leverage.
I’m not saying they don’t, right, wrong, or indifferent, but those constant messages shape expectations. They give people more of an argument. Or at least the belief that they have more of one.
Jennifer:
Or said differently: they think they do.
Alison:
Correct. It’s that unrealistic confidence. I was at a conference a month ago, you know how you sit there wondering, “Was this worth my time?” And then there’s that one nugget that makes it all worth it. For me, it was a talk on performance.
They were discussing the performance paradox, which my dad summed up perfectly when I was in grad school: “You will be promoted to your level of incompetence.”
Basically, everyone is good… until they’re promoted to the point where they’re not good. And suddenly you’ve got a bunch of people in roles they shouldn’t be in.
But back to the performance paradox—they talked about how career paths used to be a straight ladder: entry level → supervisor → manager → executive → C-suite. Today, just because you’re great at customer service doesn’t mean you should manage people. In fact, most people are not good at managing people.
So instead, companies are creating career lattices—showing people multiple ways to grow. Maybe you go from Customer Service I → II → III, and then instead of managing people, you manage a process. There are different paths that still count as advancement.
Jennifer:
Okay, but how are you advising small businesses on that? A big org can have Customer Service I, II, III. A small business has… one person.
Alison:
You don’t need a huge team. A “Customer Service I, II, III” doesn’t mean you have all three roles hired. It just means the same person has grown. Maybe they take on more responsibility. Maybe they get more autonomy. Maybe they’re verifying someone’s work instead of managing them. That’s still growth.
We’ve even done it internally, mapping out levels, compensation, and responsibilities. Because as much as people say they don’t care about money… they care about money. The challenge is that a lot of employees expect to make a million dollars right out of school. Like, “It’s year two, where’s my six-figure salary?” And I’m over here like, I love you, but this isn’t Silicon Valley.
Jennifer:
Money definitely motivates people, but I’ve also seen flexibility become huge. Especially in accounting. Historically, its rigid hours, busy season, all the things. So, introducing flexibility is a big win for us. But what we keep running into is exactly what you said: someone has one bad day, or the job isn’t exactly what they pictured on Day 7, and suddenly they’re back on Indeed hunting for something else.
I’m not saying stay until you have lockjaw; that’s obviously not the move, but there has to be some level setting. Work isn’t supposed to feel like vacation. I want people to be happy, but this is still… a job.
Alison:
Yeah, and honestly, I think this ties back to everything in society. Higher divorce rates, people moving constantly, switching jobs constantly, and the speed of everything. There’s just less long-term commitment everywhere. People aren’t staying in homes or marriages for 30 years, and they’re definitely not staying in jobs for 30 years. Everything is easier to jump in and out of.
Jennifer:
I heard something similar about the rise of GLP-1 drugs. Weight loss is a long-term, consistent effort. So, if someone says, “Lose 20 pounds over a year doing all these things,” or “Lose 20 pounds this month with one quick jab,” I mean… I get the appeal.
It’s the same mindset: quick hits, instant gratification. So, what happens when someone has to do the work and no one wants to?
Alison:
Well… some of it AI will help with. But my business partner went to a high school last week to talk to students about social media and digital footprints. And she came back with some renewed hope—there were some bright kids asking great questions. I was like, thank Jesus. Because sometimes I look at my nieces and think… where exactly are we headed?
Jennifer:
I’ve been thinking about that, too. Generations used to shift slowly—you’d watch one rebel against the last. You had conservative parents, then flower children, then yuppies. But now generational cycles are speeding up. They’re shorter, faster, and more extreme. I’m really curious what the future of work will look like for them.
Because at some point, that whole social media influencer bubble has to burst. It just has to.
Alison:
I know. And here’s the other thing. I have friends who teach kindergarten and elementary school, and they say one of the top answers to “What do you want to be when you grow up?” is… an influencer. And I’m over here like, that’s the modern-day “NBA star” dream. Everybody wants it. But there’s, like, what — a hundred people actually doing it at that level?
Jennifer:
Or an actor, or a singer… but for some reason, influencer seems more attainable. Like, you just need an audience. There’s a top for every pot.
Alison:
Except you also need the algorithm to love you. The algorithm has to choose you back. That’s the thing with influencers — the algorithm finds you and boom; you’ve got a career. But if it doesn’t, you’re just… super funny in your own house.
Jennifer:
I’m hilarious.
Alison:
I’m the funniest person I know.
Jennifer:
So, shifting gears — you’ve been helping us hire, and you’re obviously hiring for yourselves, too. With all this fast-paced nonsense happening in the job market… how has it changed the way you recruit? Are you asking different questions? Using AI? What’s shifted?
Alison:
Well, there’s a difference between hiring for ourselves and hiring for clients, because we’re incredibly specific about what we need. But the biggest thing overall is knowing, as the hiring manager, how quickly you need this role filled and how much longevity matters.
If you truly need someone who’s going to be with you for 3–5 years, hiring might take two months. If you just need a warm body to survive tax season and you don’t care if they quit in June… we can get that in a week. The longer-term hire requires sifting through way more candidates to find the diamond.
What’s wild to me—and clients still struggle with this—is how quickly you have to move now. Ten years ago, you’d interview people, then wait a week to see who followed up and “showed interest.” I had one hiring manager, Bob, who was like, “Let’s see who reaches out.” And I’m like Bob, that’s not how this works anymore.
You don’t wait. You chase. If you’re posting on Indeed, you’re reviewing resumes within 24 hours. First screenings in three days. Second round in a week. These candidates have two or three offers at once. It’s a speed game.
And we’re still seeing the thing where candidates interview everywhere, then go back to their employer and get a raise. They were never leaving.
Jennifer:
And it’s so industry dependent. In accounting, with fewer people entering the field, retaining good people is everything. I’m from Bob’s generation — the handwritten thank-you note era. Even now, if my staff gets an email thank-you after an initial interview, they ping me like, “We got one!” My bar is subterranean.
But I love that you’re bringing cultural relevance to companies, because yes — employers are doing the chasing right now. Even with all the layoffs, even in a tough economy, everyone still needs to survive. So how do you even sort through applicants today? How do you know who’s real?
Alison:
First thing: relevant experience. If the job requires accounting experience and your resume says, “dog walker,” you’re out. And then I look at tenure. Most of my clients want that 3–5 year person. If you’ve had four jobs in two years, no, I’m not calling you.
Jennifer:
Okay, out of curiosity — what’s acceptable tenure now? It used to be that moving every five years was questionable. Now is it… two?
Alison:
In five years? Two job changes is the max. More than that starts to look messy. And here’s the thing; people will come into the interview with a reason for every move. “We relocated.” “The company shut down.” “It was temp.” And sure, sometimes those are true. But if you have four reasons, what it tells me is: there will always be something more important than staying at your job.
Jennifer:
Interesting.
Alison:
I have employees who didn’t move because of their job. I have employees who, if they were that great at a company, would have been offered a full-time role. So, yes. I’m hesitant about applicants with more than two jobs in four to five years.
The interesting thing now is the COVID section of someone’s resume. What happened during COVID-19? That tells me a lot.
Did you stay home for six months because your kids were home? Totally fine.
But did you take two years off as a single person with no kids? There were endless remote jobs. You chose not to work.
And if you got laid off in March or April 2020 and your company never called you back… there’s probably a reason. Most businesses didn’t close permanently, restaurants and entertainment, yes, but most companies rehired their good people.
So, I always look at COVID. Who were you during that time? Because those were hard years. Anxiety, uncertainty — true colors came out. Bad companies exist, but if you had five bad companies in four years… maybe the company isn’t the issue.
Jennifer:
I say that all the time, and what I find interesting is, I’m a big stickler for resumes and how people present themselves. I think if you have a typo on your resume, no. If you show up for an interview in your car and you don’t acknowledge why, that’s a problem.
Alison:
I’ve literally told candidates, “I’m declining you because there’s a typo. Please proof it.”
Jennifer:
Exactly. And I appreciate when people explain short stints — “company closed,” “acquired,” “laid off,” etc.
But we interviewed someone the other day, and I asked about remote management experience. She said, “Oh, I had a job for 13 months doing exactly that. I didn’t put it on my resume because I think tenure turned potential employers off”
Alison:
Also — what do you put on your resume for a 13-month gap? “Went to summer camp”?
Jennifer:
Right, so now we’re discussing it anyway! And the reason she left? “Didn’t get along with my manager”
Nope, put it on there and come up with a better story. Even if your boss was Attila the Hun — give me better storytelling.
Alison:
A great follow-up question I ask when a candidate says that is “What did you do to try to resolve the situation before you left?”
Jennifer:
That is a great question.
Alison:
Right? Because okay, you had a bad manager — but what did you do? Did you try? Or did you just leave?
Jennifer:
So how do you uncover the truth? You’ve done this long enough. These days, it’s hard to get the truth in a 30–45 minute interview. I’d love to believe people are honest, but…
Alison:
They’re telling you what you want to hear. They want the job.
Jennifer:
Exactly. And back in the covered-wagon days — when we were all dying of dysentery — you could just call someone and say, “Hey, Bob, Susie’s interviewing — what’s the real scoop?”
Now Bob’s like, “I can neither confirm nor deny if Susie worked here.”
So… how do we get the truth?
Alison:
You absolutely should call references — but verify past employers too. Just confirm they actually worked there.
Jennifer:
I can’t tell you how many people have fake résumés. So many.
Alison:
Oh yeah, fake résumés everywhere. But when you call references, ask for professional ones. I don’t need your personal reference. Obviously, the person you give me is going to be your best friend. And she’s going to lie so you can get a job and y’all can go drinking this weekend.
But with professional references: if they don’t have any recent ones, or if their only reference is from 10 years ago — that’s suspicious.
I also ask oddball questions in interviews. Not trick questions — just ones that aren’t rehearsed. I’ll do the usual: Tell me about your last manager, what are you looking for, etc. But then I’ll ask:
“How would you describe the color yellow to a blind person?”
Jennifer:
Oh God.
Alison:
Right? Now they’re caught off guard. Now I can see critical thinking. Is there something happening in that brain, or am I just getting pre-rehearsed fluff?
Another great one: “How would you put a giraffe in a refrigerator?” See, I know by your face you just killed him.
Jennifer:
Obviioulsy he’s dead. I’ve watched enough Lifetime movies to know how to get a body in a freezer.
Alison:
I once had a candidate ask qualifying questions: Is the giraffe alive? Is it stuffed? How tall is it? That’s what I want — problem-solving.
Jennifer:
Hired.
Alison:
Hired! The best answer I ever got? Without hesitation: “I’d source a large walk-in refrigerator and walk the giraffe in.” She didn’t limit herself to a standard fridge. She solved the actual problem.
Jennifer:
Those are incredible questions.
Alison:
Yeah — because you can’t prepare for them. You get to see the real person. Not their pre-packaged interview script.
Jennifer:
So, I have to ask, because I get this constantly: “Your business will be obsolete in five years because AI is coming.” And I always say — I evaluate tools every day. I want my team to have more tools. It would just shift their job from doers to reviewers, which is a different skill set.
But here’s what I don’t understand: We post a job and get thousands of résumés. It’s obvious that 900 of them are not qualified. When will AI be able to screen out those 900 so you and I don’t have to?
Alison:
It already does. There are tools that do that. The challenge is legislation — especially in states like New York. AI learns from your hiring patterns. So, if I happen to fill five jobs in a row with men who graduated in the ’90s, AI starts feeding me more candidates like that — even if that wasn’t a hiring criterion.
So, the government is essentially saying: You can use AI, but you better make sure it isn’t learning discriminatory patterns. That’s the challenge — ensuring the tool evaluates the right things and doesn’t bake in bias.
Jennifer:
WOW! And some of our requirements aren’t résumé keywords — like “Have you managed remotely?” That doesn’t always show up unless someone explicitly writes it. A human still has to interpret relevance.
Alison:
Sometimes AI helps with that using qualifying questions. Even Indeed does that — you can ask five questions upfront and filter the answers.
Jennifer:
We have those qualifiers on Indeed. And 90% of the people who answer them… are lying.
Alison:
And don’t answer them correctly—or don’t answer them at all.
Jennifer:
No, they have to answer to get through, but they often lie. “Do you have five years of experience?” Yes.
I’m looking at your resume—you hadn’t even graduated high school 5 years ago. So, no, you don’t.
Alison:
But they balanced their own checkbook for the last two years of high school. Doesn’t that count?
Jennifer:
Oh, we’ve had people say they closed the restaurant at night and balanced the till. I was like, no—that’s a different kind of bookkeeping.
Alison:
I think AI is definitely going to play a role in both of our businesses. For us, it’s more about speed. Our AI policy is that my team can use AI as long as they understand the answer.
Need a job description for a bookkeeper? ChatGPT can generate one. But I still need to verify it: the ADA requirements, workers’ comp info, proper structure—AI can’t fully handle that. AI also won’t replace the human aspect. You can’t have a system do harassment investigations, cultural interventions, or mediate team conflicts.
Jennifer:
Even conducting interviews, AI isn’t the same. My director and I can sit through the same interview and come away with completely different opinions. AI is supposed to remove bias, but the discussions we have afterward are the most valuable part. It’s a long way off, but from a screening perspective, it could help weed out some applicants.
Alison:
AI will never understand your needs and wants the way a human does. It can’t know your experiences or history, which are critical when reviewing resumes.
Jennifer:
Anything I haven’t asked that you want to make sure people know about you or BlueLion?
Alison:
I’m passionate about supporting women entrepreneurs and helping people understand that owning a business isn’t for the faint of heart. Find your people—a good support network is essential.
Jennifer:
Amen to that.
